Gary Yourofsky : an example of a bad vegan role model

I felt compelled to write this blog post following a discussion thread which took place on Vegan New Zealand Facebook page yesterday and also following on from an unpleasant altercation which happened to me two days before on the Vegan humour Facebook page.

Gary Yourofsky is an example of a bad vegan role model.  Someone who for reason of some likely high level sentimentality towards animals and convincing rhetorical arguments about the value of being vegan has gained something of a 'cult' following.  I'm not saying there is anything bad about being vegan, since I am one myself and I think there is wonderful potential for self development in this and making a positive impact.  I think good healthy Vegan advocacy is also a great thing as and when appropriate.

What concerns me about Gary Yourofsky is he would seem to fall into a category of person whereby Veganism becomes such a leading force to the exclusion of all else.  As if someone who drives an electric car for example while at the same time doing some thing noble would somehow be able to get away with doing whatever they wanted, criticise and show such disdain towards the rest of humanity who for ever reason don't want to do that.  This is a stance which in my view and I feel in many people's views hurts the movement.  This is in the sense of Vegans being seen as a bunch of maddies and also not promoting Veganism in a healthy way which is devoid of such things as sexism, racism, homophobia etc etc.

It was 3 days ago when I posted on Vegan humour in response to a post where people were putting across and commenting that everyone should be vegan since rice and beans is obviously so cheap and it was nonsense to say it was too expensive.  From memory I may have even liked the post then in my comment wrote how I thought the post contained some truth for sure although we needed to be aware that Veganism was very white male in how it is put across.  I quoted my friend who lived in Tuvalu and how there it was impossible to be vegan due to almost a standard dish of rice and fish.  My friend said it was one time she swayed on veganism and felt ultimately it was of the best compassionate choice.  After saying that I was immediately hit with comments of calling me 'narrow minded' twice as someone started telling me how true the original post was.  Their post was immediately hit with several likes.  They then started to say how Thailand had a lot of Vegan selection of food so therefore I was incorrect.  I wrote a coherent response referring to how white privileged Veganism can be as we know it and promote it and it is important to check that. I referred to an article I found very easily through a google search to display this.  I was then called 'a fucking idiot' by another poster.  A third poster then joined in talking about how I was implying that a black person couldn't be vegan and that what I was saying made no sense since there were more female than male vegans in America.  I eventually had to bow out and block 3 peoples as I felt I was being bullied then someone else stepped in and supported my perfectly reasonable point.

I say that in background because although Gary Yourofsky had nothing to do with that conversation it was his type of rhetoric which is certainly linked to this terrible Vegan militant closed minded way of viewing things that we need to move away from.  An image of the race horse wearing blinkers comes to mind (apologies for the non vegan example).  It was yesterday when I came across a post this time on Vegans New Zealand.  It came from a comment supporting Gary Yourofsky and a series of respondents followed it.  There was incredible amount of evidence showing things he had been saying of a terribly negative nature.  Now to be clear these were not cherry picked items like someone cutting and pasting that someone called someone a 'dick' on a Facebook post and using that to discredit someone.  These were absolutely incredibly distasteful pieces of rhetoric showing the way he feels and thinks about people and the world.  I will give some examples here and I want you as the reader to really take a breath and search inside yourself what you actually think of someone who says these kind of things. The first here was presented by me to someone as I discuss more below.  There were other examples on the page.  The rest were posted the day after on a facebook friends page who I assume was still annoyed from the blind following this man seems to have.  Now I'm just presuming here (unless he's made huge apologies) he does not see anything wrong this.  Keep in mind this is a public figure on Veganism speaking about things.  There are many but here are just a few for the purpose of this.  You may get the general idea after the first. It's not necessary to read them all which is why I have closed them off but they are there if you want to really read them all which do seem from all I have seen to really just be a snapshot of what he is like.
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Exhibit 1: From a facebook conversation in which a poster says that he had a friend over who started to go on about plants having feelings.  Gary's response is 'Next time SPIT in her face and kick her in the cunt'.  I'll add that his comment here was liked by numerous people.  Here is the link https://www.facebook.com/therealgaryyourofsky/posts/933861400001617?hc_location=ufi

A beautiful collection of others posted by a facebook friend.

"Deep down, I truly hope that oppression, torture and murder return to each uncaring human tenfold! I hope that fathers accidentally shoot their sons on hunting excursions, while carnivores suffer heart attacks that kill them slowly. Every woman ensconced in fur should endure a rape so vicious that it scars them forever. While every man entrenched in fur should suffer an anal raping so horrific that they become disemboweled. Every rodeo cowboy and matador should be gored to death, while circus abusers are trampled by elephants and mauled by tigers. And, lastly, may irony shine its esoteric head in the form of animal researchers catching debilitating diseases and painfully withering away because research dollars that could have been used to treat them was wasted on the barbaric, unscientific practice of vivisection."

"I am a proud advocate of violence as EVIL people deserve NOTHING but evil in return. Only a fatuous fool who is concerned about politics would advocate pacifism."

"While my lifestyle and lectures are based on compassion, those who refuse to stop harming animals force me to support 'eye for an eye' and 'by any means necessary' philosophies."

"Rapists, murderers and child molesters should be vivisected, executed and dissected, allowing researchers the opportunity to gather useful information that would actually benefit human health for a change."

"I think his penis and balls should be seared off with a cuticle remover slowly, and then I think two skewers should be shoved into their eye sockets, dragged into another room. And then I think their penis and balls should be dipped into diarrhea and puke. They should be given the option of eating that and then they can save their lives. And if they do eat it, I want to take a gun, put it between their eyes and say ‘I was just kidding’."

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What I found amazing on the Vegan New Zealand page which I linked back to what had happened to me on the Vegan Humour forum a few days before was this incredible following for him and this almost transfixed militant nature around Veganism.  As if somehow he could just say whatever he wants and that's okay.  I quoted the first post I put above to a female poster to show what he was like to which she said 'What do you find wrong with that?'  I directed them to the very well thought out posts of a strong feminist friend of mine and a well worded post by another friend on the thread because to be honest I barely knew where to start.  Also I did not want to be involved in the drama I had on the other forum prior.  The person then wrote 'I'm with Gary all the way !!!!'  Again this was liked by several people.

It seems important again to say that being Vegan and saying good things about Veganism does not make someone a good person.  Being Vegan is a positive thing, maybe not for everyone but certainly for some people and  a path for personal growth. Being Vegan itself is not an end point. To identify it as such to the exclusion of all else is incorrect in a sense of a developing a healthy personality and being able to advocate properly.  I'm sure every Vegan including me have been through an angry phase.  We can't believe what people have done and we want others to wake up to and lift the veil and to join us.  That's all fair but it's a phase that in my view should become integrated into character where we can be well managed and to promote Veganism in a way that is constructive and healthy and inclusive.

There were some quotes on the forum yesterday that said that some people may respond to Gary's approach who can't be changed by more 'hippy' kind of way of relating.  Well there is something to be said that a more narcissistic attitude can cause political shifts to happen quicker. I ultimately disagree however that such an approach really over time does overall good.  If you think of a grounded person, someone centred, talking and discussing they simply do not have that kind of Narcissistic nature.  Being grounded too and compassionate is not 'hippyish' but is actually centred and is a way in my view to have the most and best influence and the way to be a true role model.  If we take for example Gandhi (actually a vegetarian) who was able to create so much positive change through kindness and compassion.  Veganism is a movement of compassionate living.  It would seem to me in the case of Gary Yourofsky that he isn't particularly compassionate at all.  It's more of a sentimentality and anger around the abuse of animals which charges him forward and he gets this following from people who don't have a solid sense of themselves and really think through the kind of person he actually is and what he is actually saying. 

Take a think about role models and qualities you value in a person.... 

I personally think of honesty, kindness, compassion, integrity, strength.  It would seem that our man here is showing little or none of these.  Certainly not on my role model list anyway.

A facebook friend today said that Gary Yourofsky is like the Donald Trump of Veganism.  I felt this made total sense. Similar to Donald Trump it seemed that his mentality was not based on guiding through example and being a role model. Rather it was based on latching onto people's fear and weak points which I feel is why we get this cultish tunnel visioned following who are not actually stopping and thinking for themselves.  It seems to me the same as the way Trump latches onto a concern people have about immigration then saying 'Well lets build a wall' !!! Then his following are like 'Yeah!!!!!!!!'  .  It's not based on a grounded heartfelt viewpoint which therefore makes him as a role model totally inappropriate.

If you are following him I would encourage you to seriously take a step back and question how he talks.  He should take responsibility to be a good role model if he is in that position and so far he has shown he is anything but.  Take your own power back. 

In therapy we often talk about the relationship between the narcissist and co narcissist.  The Narcissist prays on the weak points and insecurities of others and that is the kind of following he has and the way people I feel are being mislead to think this is okay.  There is some element of 'Stockholm Syndrome' taking place where people protect and defend him in an unquestioning way.  I encourage you to research into that too. Take your power back.  Recognise what a great thing you have done in becoming Vegan and then demand and challenge role models to behave in a socially admirable manner, something our man 'Gary' here is clearly not doing.

Tony Veitch. A case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder or something more severe.

Tony Veitch today 'Hey guys I woke up this morning to a series of extremely offensive and abusive posts attacking me for my past and asking why so many 'losers' would follow my page. Well, to those sad individuals who continue to try and bring me down, guess what it won't work. I have worked my ass off to re build my life and career and learn from what was a hideous relationship! I am now in the dream job and I'm happy again. The fact that some appear clearly jealous or insecure about their own lives is their issue not mine . It must eat you up that 152,000 people have embraced me and my page. To them I say a massive thank you ! To the haters , send all the abuse you want, I will just ban you and continue to love life again. Time to grow up.'

Found reading this today so incredibly relevant to loads of work I am doing personally and professionally on narcissistic personality disorder and other more extreme dangerous personality disorders such as sociopathology and psychopathology.  I had not heard of this person until this morning when friends reposted his facebook feed as above.  This guy reportedly broke his wife's back in 4 places during an assault and moving on from this maintains somehow how he has been the victim showing absolutely no insight whatsoever into what he has done.

People with narcissistic personality disorder have become trapped at a very low level of functioning. I believe perhaps it comes from our failure to negotiate a very early stage of childhood at a time whereby we 'fairly' felt ourselves to be the centre of the universe at that time. Reasonable for someone of about the age of 1. With hopefully compassion given this stage is negotiated and we learn to realise how others are important etc etc.  There are other theories on this such as whether there is in fact different brain wiring with people who grow up to have fully developed narcissistic personality disorder.

People with this disorder very rarely go into therapy since they believe they are right, as does this person.  They typically pair up with people who have some degree of co-dependence.  We need to be careful not to victim blame here but people will typically be targeted due to some weak point they have.  This will be the person that typically ends up in therapy following the abuse.  We can call this person the co-narcissist.  There is a good article on co-narcissism on the links of my site.  If you feel you may know someone who is a narcissist or feel impacted maybe see this link and see if it resonates with you as a potential co-narcissist  www.newbeginningstherapy.co.nz

Male narcissism plays out typically like this guy.  The brute, male dominator, the centre of attention.  Think of the dysfunctional alpha male, ruling by physical strength.  Narcissists are most commonly male , atleast most commonly identified as male.  I wonder how much of this links in though with how there is a pressure on males to be this kind of alpha male to some degree. So there is some part of negative male pressure and stereotyping somehow links in here somehow.

Female narcissists are similar in that they also totally lack empathy for others (the main identifier of narcissism).  They similarly lack remorse or any insight into their behaviour and everything that happens is always someone elses fault.  They think they are completely right, 100%.  The difference with male narcissism is that in the female type the typical ruling on physical strength is more typically changed to more in the way of emotional manipulation. Although male narcissists do their share of that too. Again this is where our gender conditioning mixes in.  Female narcissists will also play the role of the victim and the martyr to suck people in more typically.

I work with victims of narcissists constantly and just some narcissists. Victims of narcissists leave and feel like they've been through some kind of emotional holocaust and embark on some huge courageous process of healing and recovery to get over what has happened and this realisation that the person they thought they loved was never that person at all.

When I saw this today I felt the infuriation people had when seeing this and the disbelief that still somehow this person identifies as being the victim in it all.  I felt all this too while at the same time I have found on my journey of becoming a therapist this needing to realise how real pathological mental health is.  I noted some of the posts questioning on whether he may be a narcissist.  My assessment would be that he most certainly would be atleast that. Someone who breaks his wife back in 4 places for whatever supposed reason he no doubt has then has the capacity to write about it as a 'hideous relationship' showing no remorse for what 'he' did is certainly diagnosable in my view.

It's important to recognise how much such pathological mental health is around us and how it is such a real thing.  Not to fear monger but just to be aware of who you are friends with and who you are trusting and people who really add to your life or just take as Narcissists do.

Healthy mental health (something not talked about as often as it could be) is characterised by a quest for meaning, a state of balance.  There aren't really the same highs and lows as there are in pathological mental health.  It is more seen to be realistic, centred and an awareness of the joys and also pain of life and an understanding of our own mortality and a realistic feeling of who we are, what we can offer and our value and limitations.  This seems something this guy has little or no sense of at all.

I have wrote various blog posts on becoming centred and finding meaning in our lives and being aware of who we let in etc to avoid being victims to such people. There are some great facebook groups around survivors of narcissistic abuse I'd recommend anyone to have a search if you feel you have been in a relationship with someone like this.  It can be very resonating and therapeutic for people. 

There are also great book resources I would recommend.  'How to do no contact like a boss' is available online. Also 'It's all about him' and 'Its all about her' similarly available online.  It's important to recognise that whereas most identified people with narcissistic personality disorder are men that there is becoming an increase in identified females and victims of female narcissism.

If you see www.lifethatworks.com there are some ideas on dealing with narcissists.  Again to emphasise this is a very real thing. The only way out is no contact and detachment.  There is sadly no reasoning and this is such a hard thing to deal with. Due to them always thinking they are right you cannot really challenge them but only say things that don't buy into their games. The site linked gives good info on that. Empathising and feeling you can help will only lead to you being more and more used up.  The term 'Emotional Vampires' is a great one and there is a book called just that. These people do just bleed you dry.  That's what they thrive on.  They most often target our caring nature and our belief that if we are good to them then they will come through, but they don't.

People detaching from narcissists go through big grief processes and are suddenly able to contact their intuition and have this feeling how their whole world was just taken over.  They are able to recover and then make more constructive relationships. There is light at the end of the tunnel for the victim.

Julia Cameron in 'The artists way' writes well on this from a different space identifying the narcissist as 'the crazy maker' and about removing crazy makers then becoming in touch with our creative selves. Anyone can do a test for narcissism on someone they may be thinking may be one. See here for the test and the strategies.

Note: I am a qualified Counsellor and have studied a degree in Psychology.  I do not give diagnosis professionally as I am not a Psychologist.  However from my professional and personal experience I work with them and will give my opinions and assessments based on this.